22Sep/095
Prof Alan Matthews on the economic consequences of a Yes or a No
Posted at 1:14 pm by Owen RooneyProfessor Alan Matthews (of the Dept of Economics, Trinity) has a post up on The Irish Economy blog on the potential economic impact of a Yes or a No vote on Oct. 2. You can read it here, and there's some well informed discussion in the comments section too.
September 24th, 2009 - 09:59
This website seems to be 100% pro-Lisbon.
For a bit of diversion, I’ve decided to add the following.
Here are the reasons why I will be voting NO to the Lisbon Treaty on October the 2nd.
I encourage you to read them and also vote NO. This is not a superficial, unimportant issue. Rather, it is one of paramount importance for the Irish nation and for the Irish people. Every citizen of Ireland therefore has a duty to be well informed on Lisbon.
1. The Lisbon Treaty dissolves our independence as an Irish Nation and replaces it by total subordination to an undemocratic, totalitarian EU federation. Currently 75% of laws passed in Ireland originate in Europe. Under Lisbon, this 75% increases to 99%. Every one of these laws, with no exception, is proposed by the European Commission, which consists of 27 Commissioners. These Commissioners are chosen (not elected) by the EU from “persons whose independence [from their country] is beyond doubt” (Article 17.3 TEU). We, the people of Europe, have absolutely no say in who they will be. So simply, Lisbon puts us into a situation where 99% of our laws are made by unelected people who are devoted to the EU. This is the height of totalitarianism. Furthermore, the Treaty states, “the Treaties and the law adopted by the [European] Union on the basis of the Treaties have primacy over the law of Member States” (Declaration 17, TFEU). Notice here the word primacy; in any case of conflict between the Irish Constitution and the EU, EU law will have the final say. Notice the phrase Member States; we will merely be a small, insignificant state in a huge undemocratic EU federation, led by major players like Germany and France.
2. The notorious European Court of Justice will, for the first time, decide our rights as citizens of the EU. The Lisbon Treaty will make the Charter of Fundamental Rights legally binding on 500 million Europeans. Our rights as Irish citizens outlined in Article 40 of our Constitution will become meaningless and totally insignificant. Sensitive and serious issues like abortion, euthanasia, property rights, trial by jury, the presumption of innocence and other personal freedoms will be taken from our control and placed on the discussion table at the European Court of Justice, which is a farce of a legal system where appointed judges need have no previous judicial experience whatsoever, and which is merely a tool for implementing the sinister, immoral and ungodly aims and motives of the EU.
3. The Lisbon Treaty is a self amending treaty which means that it can be changed and altered without the consent of the people of Europe. This is extremely serious. It gives free reign to the EU to do practically whatever they want. There would be no more referendums on Europe. Article 48.1 of the Treaty says “The Treaties may be amended in accordance with an ordinary revision procedure”. This sentence can only bring to mind the “Enabling Act” of 1933 which was passed in the German Reichstag or Parliament. It enabled Chancellor Adolf Hitler to pass laws without the participation of the Parliament. This led to dictatorship, World War II and the slaughter of millions of innocent people. We need to learn from history. Self amendment means dictatorship.
Do not be deceived by sugary promises which hide toxic and lethal consequences for Ireland. Lisbon merely feathers the politician’s nests and leaves the Irish people with a grim and terrible future.
Vote NO to Lisbon.
Isaac Burke, 2nd Science, NUI Galway. 23/9/2009
September 24th, 2009 - 10:00
Here are the reasons why I will be voting NO to the Lisbon Treaty on October the 2nd.
I encourage you to read them and also vote NO. This is not a superficial, unimportant issue. Rather, it is one of paramount importance for the Irish nation and for the Irish people. Every citizen of Ireland therefore has a duty to be well informed on Lisbon.
What kind of future do we want? It is now that we decide. It is now that YOU decide. Your vote counts.
1. The Lisbon Treaty dissolves our independence as an Irish Nation and replaces it by total subordination to an undemocratic, totalitarian EU federation. Currently 75% of laws passed in Ireland originate in Europe. Under Lisbon, this 75% increases to 99%. Every one of these laws, with no exception, is proposed by the European Commission, which consists of 27 Commissioners. These Commissioners are chosen (not elected) by the EU from “persons whose independence [from their country] is beyond doubt” (Article 17.3 TEU). We, the people of Europe, have absolutely no say in who they will be. So simply, Lisbon puts us into a situation where 99% of our laws are made by unelected people who are devoted to the EU. This is the height of totalitarianism. Furthermore, the Treaty states, “the Treaties and the law adopted by the [European] Union on the basis of the Treaties have primacy over the law of Member States” (Declaration 17, TFEU). Notice here the word primacy; in any case of conflict between the Irish Constitution and the EU, EU law will have the final say. Notice the phrase Member States; we will merely be a small, insignificant state in a huge undemocratic EU federation, led by major players like Germany and France.
2. The notorious European Court of Justice will, for the first time, decide our rights as citizens of the EU. The Lisbon Treaty will make the Charter of Fundamental Rights legally binding on 500 million Europeans. Our rights as Irish citizens outlined in Article 40 of our Constitution will become meaningless and totally insignificant. Sensitive and serious issues like abortion, euthanasia, property rights, trial by jury, the presumption of innocence and other personal freedoms will be taken from our control and placed on the discussion table at the European Court of Justice, which is a farce of a legal system where appointed judges need have no previous judicial experience whatsoever, and which is merely a tool for implementing the sinister, immoral and ungodly aims and motives of the EU.
3. The Lisbon Treaty is a self amending treaty which means that it can be changed and altered without the consent of the people of Europe. This is extremely serious. It gives free reign to the EU to do practically whatever they want. There would be no more referendums on Europe. Article 48.1 of the Treaty says “The Treaties may be amended in accordance with an ordinary revision procedure”. This sentence can only bring to mind the “Enabling Act” of 1933 which was passed in the German Reichstag or Parliament. It enabled Chancellor Adolf Hitler to pass laws without the participation of the Parliament. This led to dictatorship, World War II and the slaughter of millions of innocent people. We need to learn from history. Self amendment means dictatorship.
Do not be deceived by sugary promises which hide toxic and lethal consequences for Ireland. Lisbon merely feathers the politician’s nests and leaves the Irish people with a grim and terrible future.
Vote NO to Lisbon.
Isaac Burke, 2nd Science, NUI Galway. 23/9/2009
September 24th, 2009 - 10:43
Hi Isaac,
Welcome to the site.
1. The Lisbon Treaty does no such thing as remove our independence, that’s just gross hyperbole. Ireland will continue to be a sovereign independent nation post Lisbon. Nothing in the Lisbon treaty, or any other EU treaty removes that.
You say:
“Currently 75% of laws passed in Ireland originate in Europe. Under Lisbon, this 75% increases to 99%”
Can you provide any evidence to back this up? Here’s an study that puts the figure closer to 30%:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0525/1224247323602.html
What about the ‘increases to 99%’? Any evidence?
The commission is not changing one jot under the Lisbon treaty. They have the right to propose legislation, but it can only be passed by our elected MEP’s and Governments.
Of course EU law has primacy of national law, that’s currently the case, and isn’t changing under Lisbon. How could common EU law function if individual states could just overrule it at will? You would end up with the EU saying ‘People can only work 65 hours per week max’ and some country going, ‘yeah well and good, but our people will work 80 hours’. EU law would become meaningless!
You might like to learn that declarations are about the treaty, and not in the treaty, by the way, they have political, but not legal force.
Have you honestly never heard the phrase Member States before? Have you never heard Ireland referred to as a State? Here’s article 4 of the Irish Constitution:
‘The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland.’ Yikes!
2. The CFR applies only to EU legislation, and National legislation which either implements, or transposes EU legislation. National legislation which does neither can disregard the CFR.
‘Sensitive and serious issues like abortion, euthanasia, property rights, trial by jury, the presumption of innocence and other personal freedoms will be taken from our control and placed on the discussion table at the European Court of Justice’ This is entirely false, basically you’ve just listed things people liked and claimed the ECJ will gain jurisdiction over them. Unless you can show how Lisbon gives the ECJ jurisdiction I invite you to withdraw the claim.
3. Article 48.4, which you have inconveniently omitted continues to say:
“The amendments shall enter into force after being ratified by all the Member States in accordance with their respective constitutional requirements”
In Ireland, where sovereignty is transferred to the EU, due to the Crotty vs An Taoiseach judgement our “Constitutional Requirements” mean a referendum, just like we’re having right now on Lisbon.
I take it now that your worries and fears are shown to be baseless, you will rethink your position?
September 24th, 2009 - 11:14
Further on the CFR, if you want to have a look yourself Isaac, here is the text that limits it to Union law:
Title VII CFR:
‘1. The provisions of this Charter are addressed to the institutions, bodies, offices and agencies of the Union with due regard for the principle of subsidiarity and to the Member States only when they are implementing Union law. ‘
‘5. The provisions of this Charter which contain principles may be implemented by legislative and executive acts taken by institutions, bodies, offices and agencies of the Union, and by acts of Member States when they are implementing Union law, in the exercise of their respective powers. They shall be judicially cognisable only in the interpretation of such acts and in the ruling on their legality.’
http://gandalf.aksis.uib.no/~brit/EU-CONST-EN-cc/TITLEVII-GENERALPROVISIONSGOVERNINGTHEIN.html
Should hopefully set your mind at ease a bit further.
September 24th, 2009 - 14:37
“This sentence can only bring to mind the “Enabling Act” of 1933 which was passed in the German Reichstag or Parliament. It enabled Chancellor Adolf Hitler to pass laws without the participation of the Parliament. This led to dictatorship, World War II and the slaughter of millions of innocent people. We need to learn from history. Self amendment means dictatorship.”
hahaha
That is all.